Friday, October 05, 2007

I Guess This'll Be The Last Doctor Who Discussion Post For A While.

Now showing in the United States: the Doctor Who season finale, "Last of the Time Lords." You may now talk about it here, if you so wish! I suppose the usual no-spoilers-for-future-episodes warning isn't exactly relevant anymore. I'll figure you can use your own judgment when it comes to discussing anything you may have heard about what's coming up next season.

I will also point you back to my earlier post about deleted scenes for this episode. If you're watching on Sci-Fi, I strongly recommend checking them out.


  1. Deleting those scenes is just inexcusable, really. Seriously, I think we could have happily done without a Flash Gordon commercial here and there, no?

    A lot of people didn't like the magic floaty Doctor (or the shrunken gollum Doctor), but I really loved that climactic moment when Martha reveals her real plan to the Master. The first time I saw it, I felt this little shiver rush through me. It was nice to feel it again watching it tonight.

    I love the final moments with Martha. In fact, I really loved Martha this whole season, but I think those final scenes address some of the criticisms people had about Martha -- namely that she was a lovestruck second fiddle to the Doctor. "I spent a lot of time with you thinking I was second best, but you know what? I am good."

    I'll be a little disappointed if she isn't Dr. Martha Jones (or at least a little closer to it) when we next see her. Which will be on Torchwood's next season, right?

    A couple of other questions:

    Who do you think picks up the Master's ring at the end?

    And do you think Jack is the Face of Boe?

  2. Deleting those scenes is just inexcusable, really.

    It really is. I'm not sure what I would have cut if I had to, but it definitely wouldn't have been that stuff.

    Sci-Fi has been persuaded to devote extra time in the past when an episode has run long... They did it for the first Christmas special, as I recall. I'm not sure they were even given the option this time, though. Not that I'd necessarily expect them to take it if they had.

    A lot of people didn't like the magic floaty Doctor

    I confess, I really had problems with that, myself. It's kind of over-the-top, IMO, as well as being a bit deus-ex-machina-y and far too reminiscent of the "character saves the day with sudden glowy magic powers" climax of "Parting of the Ways." I really wish it had been handled with a bit more subtlety and given more setup. That, and the badly rendered and entirely nonsensical CGI-gnome-Doctor mar the episode a fair bit for me, which is sad, because there was real potential there for it to be one of the best and most affecting episodes ever. I find that if I go back and watch the death scene on its own without watching the glowy-Doctor bit, it's infinitely more powerful.

    I did love the bit before that with Martha, though. That little smile she gives the Master... beautiful.

    Her leaving has actually generated a lot of controversy among fans... Some people have read it as sending some sort of message about Martha not being as good as Rose, because the Doctor loved Rose but ignores her... To my mind, though, that reading is just bizarre. I think it's a lovely example of a character being strong enough and independent enough to know exactly what she wants and make her own decisions in life, rather than following puppy-like, after a man who can't really give her what she's looking for. Which, IMHO, makes her way better than Rose. :) I was deeply sorry to see her go, though, and a little taken aback by how abruptly it happened... Somehow I felt like I'd hardly gotten to know her!

    I do recall reading somewhere that she will, indeed, be a full-fledged doctor when next we see her. Which I believe should be an appearance on Torchwood, yes.

    Who do you think picks up the Master's ring at the end?

    My guess is Lucy. Now, what she's going to do with it is an interesting question. :)

    And do you think Jack is the Face of Boe?

    I go back and forth on that one. I did believe it at first, because it makes sense of a couple of things, such as the Face calling the Doctor "old friend" when they'd really barely met, as far as we saw. On reflection, though, I think it much more likely that Jack was yanking their chain. He did hear them talking about the Face of Boe earlier. And apparently the Face was incredibly famous for incredibly long periods of time. It seems a bit difficult to imagine that Jack had never heard of him.

  3. I liked the episode for the most part. Wasnt impressed with "Gollam" Doctor. I really enjoyed the music. Quite different than other shows. I also believe that the hand with the ring is Lucy but, you never know.

  4. Wasnt impressed with "Gollam" Doctor.

    I think I'd rather have a bad rubber monster than a bad CGI, but while either of them are tolerable for the monster of the week, reducing your lead character to that state for important dramatic scenes is kind of a bad idea.

    Quite different than other shows.

    It's in a class by itself, Doctor Who is. :)

  5. I guess I'm the only one who thought it was fairly decent CGI.

  6. I think it needed to be better than it was, let's put it that way.

  7. I don't know Jack and The Face of Boe kind of have the same lips.

    Yeah, I liked little shrunken Doctor better than the floaty Doctor.

    I'm not sure I liked most the episode 100%. However, honestly the ending with The Doctor crying holding The Master given everything, ahhh just choked me up!

  8. That's pretty much exactly how I feel. After the last couple of episodes, I did find this one a bit of a disappointment, especially the first time I watched it, but, man, that death scenes... *sniff* It does kind of break your heart, doesn't it?

  9. Fair enough. Maybe it's that I found "Army of Ghosts" and "Doomsday" last season largely disappointing. (Actually, I found all the alternate Earth/Cybermen stuff last season largely disappointing.) But I really liked the episode, and I really loved the season overall. I thought Freema Agyeman really had a chance to shine. Much as I liked Billie Piper, I definitely think Martha Jones is a better fit for Tennant's Doctor.

    And while I'm not a fan of what I've seen of Catherine Tate's sketch comedy show, I'm interested to see her return next season.

  10. I had a few issues with "Army of Ghosts"/"Doomsday", but liked them overall. I think, for a long-term Doctor Who fan, there's a certain sort of self-indulgent pleasure in seeing the Daleks and the Cybermen face off, finally. Those episode had their flaws, too, though. Unlike some people, I have a lot of good things to say about Russel Davies, but I do wish he'd start letting someone else write the season finales.

    Thoroughly agreed about Martha, though. I love her to bits, and I think she was an infinitely better fit for Tennant's Doctor than Rose was... Something I'm sure I've rambled on about enough in the past. Suffice it to say that while I liked Rose with Nine, the dynamics between her and Ten annoyed me.

    I'm really looking forward to seeing Donna as a companion. I really do think that what the Tenth Doctor needs is precisely someone who'll stand up to him and spark off of him.

  11. They deleted scenes from the Torchwood season opener. CBC decided to cut the guy on guy kiss out and the argument proceeding it. Not that I care, I thought it was stupid when I watched it on YouTube anyhow. Makes me wonder how long episode will run for - tenty minutes with commercials?
    One thing I do miss is the Doctor Who Confidential that used to run after Series One.
    And, much to Betty's disgust, the Sontaran's are back in Series Four. I know nothing about them other than they are ugly and, apparently, quite stupid.

  12. Was that the bit with Owen? Man, they could cut out every scene he's in, for all I care. But I'll be annoyed at the edits on principle, anyway.

    They never did show the Confidentials on Sci-Fi. They are still running after the show in the UK, though.

    And that's really all you need to know about the Sontarans. Honestly, though, I can't decide whether I'm hoping the new series will improve them, or whether it wont. I kind of enjoy bitching about them. :)

  13. Again,
    I have to admit to thinking the Sontarans are cool. Yes, they are stupid(intelligence wise) as shown in "The Sontaran Experiment"
    Admittedly, they don't stand up as cool when compared to the likes of Daleks or Cybermen.

    I'm definitely curious how they are going to handle their design in the new series

  14. I am curious. Since Torchwood has received such low reviews on this blog. Any insights to how it is being received in the UK? I assuming ok since it hasn't been cancelled yet.

  15. I admit, the original Sontaran in "The Time Warrior" was OK, but "The Sontaran Experiment" put me right off of them for life. They're too stupid to live, I tell you! TOO STUPID TO LIVE!!!


    Torchwood, I think, has done reasonably well, ratings-wise, although I don't know the figures or anything. I have seen some very favorable reviews for it in the media, by the way, although my people I know seem to think that, at best, it has potential it's not really living up to yet. (Which is pretty much my take on it, actually.)

    Have you watched any of it, by the way?

  16. Torchwood is on for a second series, but if it doesn't improve I would surprised to see it renewed for a third.

  17. I really didn't know what a Sontaran was, so, since I was already in Wikipedia, I thought I'd check. And I came across this amusing note, which, while it mentions something in en episode of The Sarah Jane Adventures that some people (myself included) haven't seen, I think isn't too spoilerish. Anyway:

    They are mentioned in "Eye of the Gorgon", an episode of The Sarah Jane Adventures. Sarah Jane Smith meets Bea Nelson-Stanley, an elderly lady suffering from Alzheimer's disease who recalls her husband describing the Sontarans as looking like potatoes and that they were "quite the silliest creatures in the galaxy".

  18. Yes, indeed. I have seen that, and I kind of loved that line, because I utterly, utterly agree with it. :)

    (It is a bit spoilerish, by the way, as it came as an interesting surprise, to me at least, that this old lady knew about things like Sontarans. But probably it won't ruin anything for anybody, so we'll let it stand.)

  19. I must confess even though I begged for you to send me those discs of Torchwood, I haven't watched yet. I think I will start a Friday night viewing of them.

  20. I'll be interested to see what you think of it.