Oh I have to comment on "Daleks in Manhattan". P.S. I have not watched the 2nd part that was shown last night yet.
I think underneath it all it had the potential for a good story/episode. Just eliminate the over the top New Yorkers and the pig men and there you have it!
There is a great line, I don't remember the exact quote. But, when The Doctor sees the Dalek he says something like they survive, they keep surviving while I lose everything or something generally along those lines.
I didn't like "Daleks in Manhattan" at all when I first saw it, but having just watched it again, I enjoyed it a lot more. I think it's much more entertaining when you know enough not to get thrown by the weirder (or more nonsensical) plot elements. I actually have an odd sort of attraction/repulsion thing going towards the story as a whole, because I think it -- particularly part 2, which I won't spoil you for -- touches on a lot of interesting themes if you can get past the silliness. But there's a lot of silliness to get past, even for Doctor Who. If you can ever think of a good answer to the obvious question of "Why pigs?!" please do let me know. :)
Anyway. Yes, that is a great line (and I think you've actually got it fairly close). You have to feel for the Doctor. The poor, poor guy. *sniff* (By the way, I happened to watch "The Mind of Evil" again a while back. Dunno if you remember that one at all... It's a really great Pertwee ep. Anyway, it features a machine that shows you your worst fears. The Doctor's worst fears? A planet burning... and Daleks. In retrospect, it's almost unbearably poignant. I so want to hug the man.)
By the way, it's also interesting to point out that one of the Daleks has a vaguely similar line about the humans, how the Daleks are supposed to be the superior race, but it's the humans who always keep surviving while the Daleks keep losing. It's often been said that the Daleks are like cockroaches (in more ways than one, really), but it's kind of interesting to see that they might think of us the same way.
If you can ever think of a good answer to the obvious question of "Why pigs?!" please do let me know.
"We've just found these pig costumes tucked away in a store cupboard. We think they've been there since 1976, but it would seem a waste not to use them."
There's also a classic series episode (and "classic" here modifies both "series" and "episode") which features an artificial creature created using the brain of a pig.
I really have no idea what it is with Doctor Who and pigs...
In fact, Harry Potter gives me Doctor Who flashbacks, rather than the other way round. This is, er, because I'm me. I suspect you get Pinky & The Brain flahsbacks because, well, you're you. I have no idea how to save you from that, though, even if I wanted to.
Clearly, what we actually need is a Doctor Who/Pinky & the Brain crossover...
I've just been off reading some (to me) surprisingly vitriolic comments lobbed against the last few episodes, and against Russell T. Davies in particular, so it's nice to come back to some place where the debate is about things like pig-men or no pig-men, or how closely Doctor Who crosses over with Harry Potter.
(Spoiler warning for that link, by the way, in case that wasn't obvious.)
Oh, I've seen a lot of those kinds of comments. Some of them actually make some very good points... RTD does have some systematic weaknesses in his writing, and I do have some issues, in particular, with the season finale (which I think had the potential to be freakin' amazing, but which mishandled its plot devices slightly).
But every time I get a belly full of that kind of fannish whining, or start thinking that maybe there's something wrong with me for not being critical enough, I go back and watch the actual show, and it's a marvelous antidote to that kind of negativity because, flawed or not, it still rocks, and I love it to the core of my being. :)
Besides, enjoying the show is just so much more fun than trashing it!
I should also add, by the way, that this is nothing new among Doctor Who fans. I don't think there's any era of the show that doesn't get vitriolically trashed by someone, usually for the crime of being different than the Doctor Who they grew up with in some fashion or other. But change is a constant for Doctor Who, and IMHO it's one of its great strengths. It also makes whatever it might do that I don't like easier to bear. It's a bit like the weather, really. If you don't like what it's doing right now, just wait a while and it'll change.
I do: cross-over!
ReplyDeleteThe possibilities kind of make my head hurt. :)
ReplyDeleteTARDIS = Horcrux. That's all I'm saying.
ReplyDeleteA place bigger on the inside than on the outside could be very useful for Hagrid.
ReplyDeletewow nothing happening here
ReplyDeleteSorry, I've been busy-ish. I had a Doctor Who marathon yesterday, but I suspect everyone is getting tired of hearing me talk about that. :)
ReplyDeleteRamble on O Sci-Fi kid.
ReplyDeleteA friend and I watched the entire current season of Doctor Who in pretty much one sitting. It's kind of interesting that way, actually. :)
ReplyDeleteOh, and speaking of Sci-Fi, Dad, I've got some Farscape ready to send to you soon. :)
ReplyDeleteOh I have to comment on "Daleks in Manhattan".
ReplyDeleteP.S. I have not watched the 2nd part that was shown last night yet.
I think underneath it all it had the potential for a good story/episode. Just eliminate the over the top New Yorkers and the pig men and there you have it!
There is a great line, I don't remember the exact quote. But, when The Doctor sees the Dalek he says something like they survive, they keep surviving while I lose everything or something generally along those lines.
I didn't like "Daleks in Manhattan" at all when I first saw it, but having just watched it again, I enjoyed it a lot more. I think it's much more entertaining when you know enough not to get thrown by the weirder (or more nonsensical) plot elements. I actually have an odd sort of attraction/repulsion thing going towards the story as a whole, because I think it -- particularly part 2, which I won't spoil you for -- touches on a lot of interesting themes if you can get past the silliness. But there's a lot of silliness to get past, even for Doctor Who. If you can ever think of a good answer to the obvious question of "Why pigs?!" please do let me know. :)
ReplyDeleteAnyway. Yes, that is a great line (and I think you've actually got it fairly close). You have to feel for the Doctor. The poor, poor guy. *sniff* (By the way, I happened to watch "The Mind of Evil" again a while back. Dunno if you remember that one at all... It's a really great Pertwee ep. Anyway, it features a machine that shows you your worst fears. The Doctor's worst fears? A planet burning... and Daleks. In retrospect, it's almost unbearably poignant. I so want to hug the man.)
By the way, it's also interesting to point out that one of the Daleks has a vaguely similar line about the humans, how the Daleks are supposed to be the superior race, but it's the humans who always keep surviving while the Daleks keep losing. It's often been said that the Daleks are like cockroaches (in more ways than one, really), but it's kind of interesting to see that they might think of us the same way.
If you can ever think of a good answer to the obvious question of "Why pigs?!" please do let me know.
ReplyDelete"We've just found these pig costumes tucked away in a store cupboard. We think they've been there since 1976, but it would seem a waste not to use them."
Not exactly the kind of explanation I was thinking of, but fair enough. :)
ReplyDeleteCan you answer this: Why not pigs?
ReplyDeleteWell, they're not exactly inconspicuous, are they? And, really... why go to the trouble?
ReplyDeleteThe "Pigmen" were created to give out of work makeup artists a little work.
ReplyDeleteProbably to get them out of Hooverville.
See, neither you nor John is playing this game properly. You're supposed to be thinking about the Daleks' motivation, not the TV people's!
ReplyDeleteAnd, doggone it, I now have Pink Floyd stuck in my head. "Pigman, pigman..."
Perhaps there's a connection to the pig-man the Slitheen create in "Aliens of London" in the first series?
ReplyDeleteThere's also a classic series episode (and "classic" here modifies both "series" and "episode") which features an artificial creature created using the brain of a pig.
ReplyDeleteI really have no idea what it is with Doctor Who and pigs...
It really disturbs me that, rather than Harry Potter, I have Pinky & the Brain flashbacks.
ReplyDeleteIn part 1, the intelligence sensing machine made me think of an almost identical device in a P&TB episode (written ten years earlier).
In part 2, I realized that Tallulah's voice reminded me of Billie the mouse.
Save me!
In fact, Harry Potter gives me Doctor Who flashbacks, rather than the other way round. This is, er, because I'm me. I suspect you get Pinky & The Brain flahsbacks because, well, you're you. I have no idea how to save you from that, though, even if I wanted to.
ReplyDeleteClearly, what we actually need is a Doctor Who/Pinky & the Brain crossover...
Oh, man. I suddenly want that, now.
Help me!
I've just been off reading some (to me) surprisingly vitriolic comments lobbed against the last few episodes, and against Russell T. Davies in particular, so it's nice to come back to some place where the debate is about things like pig-men or no pig-men, or how closely Doctor Who crosses over with Harry Potter.
ReplyDelete(Spoiler warning for that link, by the way, in case that wasn't obvious.)
Oh, I've seen a lot of those kinds of comments. Some of them actually make some very good points... RTD does have some systematic weaknesses in his writing, and I do have some issues, in particular, with the season finale (which I think had the potential to be freakin' amazing, but which mishandled its plot devices slightly).
ReplyDeleteBut every time I get a belly full of that kind of fannish whining, or start thinking that maybe there's something wrong with me for not being critical enough, I go back and watch the actual show, and it's a marvelous antidote to that kind of negativity because, flawed or not, it still rocks, and I love it to the core of my being. :)
Besides, enjoying the show is just so much more fun than trashing it!
I should also add, by the way, that this is nothing new among Doctor Who fans. I don't think there's any era of the show that doesn't get vitriolically trashed by someone, usually for the crime of being different than the Doctor Who they grew up with in some fashion or other. But change is a constant for Doctor Who, and IMHO it's one of its great strengths. It also makes whatever it might do that I don't like easier to bear. It's a bit like the weather, really. If you don't like what it's doing right now, just wait a while and it'll change.